Comments - Conservatives and Theater - TheatreFace

Gwydion: Yes. The bottom line…

2011-05-16T04:42:31.689Z

Gwydion:

Yes. The bottom line is that without the audience we wouldn't perform. On the other hand, you have to have a performance for there to be an audience.

:-)

I think of Emily Dickinson, t…

2011-05-16T02:58:53.771Z

I think of Emily Dickinson, too -- or at least I did when I was getting my M.A. in poetry; I haven't done so very often since then -- and what I think about is how desperately she must have wanted someone, somewhere, to read and connect with those poems. (Or that perhaps she thought she was writing them to God, which was a kind of a connection.) That's who (in part) I think Emily was writing for.

Perhaps it is true that most community theater is run by people who want "an outlet." I would venture to guess that if no one came to see the shows they put on, however, they wouldn't put them on. No?

Gwydion: My apologies for "…

2011-05-15T20:02:16.237Z

Gwydion:

My apologies for "hijacking" your original blog into other arenas. Let me digress just a touch more, but I will get back to your first thought.

You are prodding me to think more deeply about this. Yes, counting any production as one would give a strange and mostly useless statistic. A better measure would be one person in one seat for one performance. Add all those up and professional theatre may well win the numbers. (I'm a guy who remains amazed at how much grass roots theatre there is in the USA, world wide for that matter.)

When I write that "Theatre is as much for those who do it, as those who view it." I don't intend any negative connotations. I think artists of all types create out of an inner drive to do so. I think of Emily Dickinson. Out of the 1700 plus poems she wrote only a handful were published in her life time. Who was she writing for?

Every community theatre I've ever been involved in was started by theatre practitioners who didn't have an outlet, not theatre goers who didn't have a source. But it's a joyous relationship between those who create and those who view. I really believe theatre is as much "for" those who view it as those who do it.

Okay, back to you your original blog post. Yes, I have to agree that there are more liberal involved in theatre than conservatives. In fact I think your two to one ratio is generous. The same phenomena occurs in higher education. It's been studied and documented that liberals far out number conservatives among the faculty and staff of most colleges and universities, especially on the secular campuses. There-in may well be reason for similar numbers in theatre? Would it be fair to say that most theatre is pursued by "intellectuals" as well? Probably.

One of the saving graces here is that, in the intellectual world (and liberal world) we challenge ourselves to be open minded and diverse. Sooner or later there is a Gwydion who comes along and says . . . . What about the conservative point of view? Are we missing it. Are we shutting it out? etc. (I paraphrase.)

I don't think I've brought any enlightenment to the table here, but I'm enjoying the discussion.

Well, Richard, we shall have…

2011-05-15T03:43:04.021Z

Well, Richard, we shall have to disagree on this one, for several reasons. I cannot fathom why you'd count each production as one; more accurate would be to count each ticket that's sold, to my mind. I also don't believe for one second that theater is for the people who make it; I would argue that it's the exact opposite, and I've devoted my life to theater-as-service in many respects. Finally, of COURSE people don't shout that they want to see theater locally; how else would they see it?

Each of us, however, is entitled to our own opinion... just not to our own facts. If someone cares to do a study or survey of some sort, I'm sure it's likely to be very illuminating. For the record, my gut tells me that if we include as much as possible in what's considered "theater," we'd still find, say, liberals outnumbering conservatives (there are those labels again) by at least 2 to 1... which still leaves me troubled by my original question, really, about which I have not yet been enlightened.

Gwydion: Thanks. Now I can h…

2011-05-14T17:22:33.182Z

Gwydion:

Thanks. Now I can hear your name in my head.

Like much of this discussion a lot depends on how you define "liberal" and "conservative." That's the problem with those kinds of labels . . . they just don't work in the real world. We all defy the stereotypes even as we may partially confirm them.

To jump back to a different part of this discussion . . . I've contended that there is more theatre in this country produced by amateurs than there is by professionals. Although it may depend on how you count the data . . . number of performances, number of patrons etc.

I think if you count each production as one (i.e. a high school production of Annie that runs two nights is one and a professional production of Cats that is on a year long tours is one.) then I think there is more theatre produced at an amateur level. I suppose I could try to get the publishers to send me royalty data . . . but I'm not that ambitious about that idea.

I think about this because one of my growing list of axioms about theatre is . . . "Theatre is as much for those who are doing it as it is for those who are viewing it." At the amateur level, especially community theatre, the art exists because of those who want to create it. I'd wager that most community theatre exists because a handful of people banded together and said "We want to create theatre locally!" not "We want to see theatre locally." And I love that. Grass roots theatre has an amazing power to bring a diverse group of people together to create art . . .or at least attempt to create art. :-) Sure a lot of it is poorly done and sometimes one can hardly stand to watch, but there are also the huge serendipities of amazing shows produced at the local community center that make the audience laugh and cry.

Thanks for the engaging blog.

RTY

Sure thing! Gwydion sounds ex…

2011-05-11T04:27:12.430Z

Sure thing! Gwydion sounds exactly like Gideon (as in "Rocky Raccoon/ fell back in his room/ only to find Gideon's Bible"). Suilebhan is (believe it or not) pronounced exactly like Sullivan. Easier than it looks, no?

I agree: plays with agendas are generally lifeless to me.

As to your speculation about whether most of the theater in the US is created by conservatives... I have to say that I find that very, very, very (almost threw in one more) unlikely. While I do agree that the numbers of conservative theater practitioners may in fact be generally underestimated (insofar as they are estimated at all, which I haven't seen anywhere but -- loosely, mind you -- here), I think it's a big stretch to say they're underestimated THAT badly. However, I do believe that a lot of what IS theater (drama ministers in churches, for example) wouldn't be counted AS theater in any assessment by my fellow progressives, which would be a shame (and an error).

I also think -- I'm going on experience here -- that it's unlikely that most community theater and educational theater practitioners are politically conservative, too. Mind you, my experience is largely in urban areas, but the one community theater group in a (very) rural area that I happen to know quite well is politically liberal-to-moderate. Still: anecdotes don't amount to a hill of beans here, nor do guesses. Data would be SO much better, don't you agree?

Gwydion: First, any chance…

2011-05-10T17:46:10.660Z

Gwydion:

First, any chance we can get a "phonetic" rendition of your name so I can hear it in my head?

:-)

Second, the question of intent and writing is worth some exploring. It's one thing to think "I want to write plays that are uplifting and bring out the best in people." And quite another to think "I'm going to write a play that promotes a particular moral stance or worldview." In fact if a student told me that they wanted to promote a particular political stance, moral point, or world view via their work I'd tell them to give up playwriting and become an essayist.

But back to your initial thought about theatre and "conservatives." While it would be hard to prove, I suspect that most of the theatre produced in the USA is created by conservatives. But I'm including all levels of theatre. When you get right down to it there is more community theatre and educational theatre in this country than professional theatre. And I'd wager that most of the people producing theatre at those levels are playing to relatively conservative audiences. The local high school probably isn't going to produce Sexual Perversity In Chicago.They'd lose their audience and the teacher would find himself in front of the school board. I directed The Laramie Project at Blackburn College some years ago, and while it was good for my students, the box office took a nose dive. Anyway, I suspect that at the amateur level especially there are a lot of conservatives producing theatre.

Thanks for a great blog.

Richard

Aaron, that's an interesting…

2011-05-05T02:34:28.429Z

Aaron, that's an interesting question. I honestly meant it in a sort of broad-brush way: politically conservative, which encompasses those who are socially and/or economically (and/or in other ways) conservative. But it's not fair of me to be making too many generalizations, I believe, and I should have perhaps tried to be more specific.

From what I understand, Mamet might best be described as a Libertarian:

http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/2008/03/david_mamet_libertarian.php

But on matters like this, I always prefer to hear things from the person's mouth (or pen) directly... so here's his own statement:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2008-03-11/news/why-i-am-no-longer-a-brain-dead-liberal/full

There you go!

Gwydion, I was just curious…

2011-05-05T02:28:02.838Z

Gwydion,

I was just curious as to how you are defining "conservative". Are you meaning politically, especially dealing with the influence of the government? Or are you using the term in the broader, more morally based sense? I would tend to agree with Richard in that Mamet does not seem like a conservative practitioner to me at first glance, but I am definitely no expert.

Hi, Richard -- I honestly can…

2011-05-05T02:27:49.776Z

Hi, Richard --

I honestly can't remember seeing Mamet declare his politics overtly anywhere, and I've read every one of his plays and books EXCEPT the most recent, which I will get around to. I think he's got a very keen mind, though much of what he says doesn't sit right with me; it does at least make me think.

To answer your question: I think it's really hard to write plays that have any conscious intent to affect an audience. Can we really predict how people are going to respond? I don't believe so. No matter what you do, there's always going to be somehow who laughs at the funeral for no good reason...

I want to believe that the intent that's in a playwright's heart when writing a play does somehow come through... but I'm not sure it does.